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#41 Daaaaave

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 06:07 AM

I'll let Bill Sizemore know you said hi.

#42 Daaaaave

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 12:52 PM

http://portlandtribu...083835216826200

Public Market sets sights on new home
Union Station out as Melvin Mark offers different location
By Jennifer Anderson

The proposal to house a year-round public market at the historic Union Station building appears to be dead in the water, since the Portland Public Market Foundation mow has set its sights on a new location.

The new plan is for the much-talked-about market is to occupy the ground floor of the federal homeland security office at 511 S.W. Broadway, when that operation relocates.

Portland’s Melvin Mark Development Company plans to acquire the building from its current owner, the U.S. General Services Administration, within two years, Paul said.

Melvin Mark would then lease the ground floor of the building – 37,000-square feet, or a full city block – to the foundation, which would offer space seven days a week to vendors of fresh and locally grown produce, meats, baked goods and flowers.

To Ron Paul, the market’s biggest champion and consulting director of the foundation, the partnership is the perfect solution.

“Politically, economically and operationally, it is an answer to many problem that Union Station had raised,” he said. Occupying part of Union Station, alongside the existing rail operations, would have been dependent on the city and Portland Development Commission addressing the $40 million in seismic upgrades and other renovation costs.

The amount of available space and the layout at the 511 Building is also better for the market, Paul said. While the site had been one of the leading options for a public market site since 2001, he said, his dilemma was what to do with the upper floors of the building.

He had not known about Melvin Mark’s interest in the building until recently.

The plan would be for the market to be the anchor the building, with the rest of it developed into mixed-use space, including residential and commercial units.

Paul said he’s shooting for occupying the building about three years from the time Melvin Mark takes control of the building, and his goal would be to own its own space within a decade.

“We’ve encountered a gift, in terms of a willing and capable public-private partnership,” he said. “We are very engaged in seeing this option all the way through.”

On a side note, the public market foundation’s board voted today to intend to name the market after the late James Beard, the nationally known, Oregon born chef and culinary expert.

This week is also the James Beard Foundation’s “Taste America” event, which is happening at various locations including Union Station and the Williams-Sonoma at Washington Square. Finally, the public market will be the subject of discussion at the Portland City Club on Friday.



#43 ExtraMSG

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 03:09 PM

Wow, that's a high dollar spot. I'd sure like the public market going in there instead of an Eddie Bauer, Cheesecake Factory, or the like.

The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

Nick Zukin, Mi Mero Mole

Co-Author, Artisan Jewish Deli at Home

Formerly, Kenny & Zuke's


#44 Jeff

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 04:14 PM

I think it's 511 N.W. Broadway. The article has also been updated....

511 SW Broadway didn't make any sense to me......

#45 chefken

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 05:51 PM

It's funny, as of yesterday, Union Station was the perfect location for the market. Fantastic. Now, “Politically, economically and operationally, it is an answer to many problems that Union Station had raised, ”Paul said.

Meanwhile, he's saying it will be at least 5 more years until opening, which makes abut 13 years that Paul has been working on getting this open.

Trust me, with Ron in charge, we will never have a market in Portland. Or at least not until someone else takes charge.
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#46 Amanda

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 06:25 AM

What you got against Ron Paul, chefken? All I know is I loved his food when he had his own restaurant over on Broadway where Peet's is.

Best regards,

Amanda

#47 Daaaaave

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 06:39 AM

It's funny, as of yesterday, Union Station was the perfect location for the market. Fantastic. Now, “Politically, economically and operationally, it is an answer to many problems that Union Station had raised, ”Paul said.

Meanwhile, he's saying it will be at least 5 more years until opening, which makes abut 13 years that Paul has been working on getting this open.

Trust me, with Ron in charge, we will never have a market in Portland. Or at least not until someone else takes charge.


How's that Labor Day opening coming along with your place?

#48 chefken

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 06:49 AM

Um, different issue, and I appreciate the idiotic insinuation, but thanks for asking.

Back to the actual issue: I have nothing against Ron, other than I think he's the wrong man to lead in this Public Market quest (Now, Daaaaave, if I had said I was the right man, then your analogy between taking 13 years to get a friggin market open and being what is likely 4-5 weeks late in getting a 5000 sq. ft. restaurant open might be a wee bit more germane, but only a wee bit). IMO he's got too many agendas and is not anywhere close to up front about the business aspects of the project, and lacks the business acumen to pull this together, especially when there will be substantial public financial involved.
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#49 Daaaaave

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 07:52 AM

Um, keep repeating the same thing and maybe eventually someone will believe you. Of course, no one will notice that you fail to see the irony in your good self dogging someone else for lack of business acumen and late openings. I am surprised Ron Paul hasn't included you as a confidant about the business aspects of the project; your clout could knock at least a year or two off that timeline, I'm sure.

#50 Calabrese

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 01:55 PM

So.... back to the public market and whether or not it's feasible and whether or not public monies should be spent on it. No one cares about unrelated sniping unless you boys want to take that to PM because you care. Just a suggestion, not a mandate.

Daaaave, you seem to be very judgmental about folks you don't know. Sizemore is a total jerk and a business failure. But that doesn't mean that corporate welfare from public monies is a good idea. So... quit with the red herrings on me and on others (eg chefken) and stick to the issues.

#51 chefken

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 02:15 PM

Um, keep repeating the same thing and maybe eventually someone will believe you. Of course, no one will notice that you fail to see the irony in your good self dogging someone else for lack of business acumen and late openings. I am surprised Ron Paul hasn't included you as a confidant about the business aspects of the project; your clout could knock at least a year or two off that timeline, I'm sure.


Um, first, I don't know what it is I'm supposed to be "repeating." Second, I'm not "dogging" anyone, just giving a pertinant and on topic opinion on the Public Market and the people involved with it. Your agreement isn't really mandatory. Third, there's no irony involved. I don't have to sing better than Britney Spears or act better than Lindsay Lohan to think they suck at what they do. Nor do you have to be able to cook at all or prove you even possess a palate to give an opinion on a given restaurant.

I'm not suggesting that I'd do a great job at what Ron is attempting, nor do I need to be able to in order to offer up an opinion about the subject, especially when it will require public money. And that shouldn't open me up to snide personal comments from you.

Now, if you have some relevant nugget that would add some insight to the subject of the Public Market instead of personally attacking me as someone uninvolved in the project, I'm sure we'd all find it fascinating.
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#52 chefken

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 02:18 PM

What you got against Ron Paul, chefken? All I know is I loved his food when he had his own restaurant over on Broadway where Peet's is.

Best regards,

Amanda


Thanks, Amanda. I opened that place with Ron as his Executive Chef.
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#53 Calabrese

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 02:29 PM


What you got against Ron Paul, chefken? All I know is I loved his food when he had his own restaurant over on Broadway where Peet's is.

Best regards,

Amanda


Thanks, Amanda. I opened that place with Ron as his Executive Chef.





Really? I used to go there quite a bit in the day. Did you ever do any of the catering gigs? I went to one very excellent one under very sad circumstances back in the early 90s.

#54 chefken

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 02:54 PM


What you got against Ron Paul, chefken? All I know is I loved his food when he had his own restaurant over on Broadway where Peet's is.

Best regards,

Amanda


Thanks, Amanda. I opened that place with Ron as his Executive Chef.





Really? I used to go there quite a bit in the day. Did you ever do any of the catering gigs? I went to one very excellent one under very sad circumstances back in the early 90s.


Lots of them! I was there, I believe, from November '01 to October ''03.
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#55 ExtraMSG

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 03:48 PM

So.... back to the public market and whether or not it's feasible and whether or not public monies should be spent on it. No one cares about unrelated sniping unless you boys want to take that to PM because you care. Just a suggestion, not a mandate.


I'll mandate it. If you want to talk about K&Z's there's already a thread for that. I'll be happy to answer any questions on that thread about whether we're late, what our timeline is, etc.

The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

Nick Zukin, Mi Mero Mole

Co-Author, Artisan Jewish Deli at Home

Formerly, Kenny & Zuke's


#56 Daaaaave

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 06:41 AM

"Lack of business acumen/savvy" - Repeated but not substantiated.

"Too many agendas" - Repeated but not substantiated.

"Substantial public financial" - Repeated but not substantiated.

If there were any facts or stories or elaboration, that would be one thing, but hey...what's a little public slander and character assassination among friends?

#57 Daaaaave

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 06:51 AM

So.... back to the public market and whether or not it's feasible and whether or not public monies should be spent on it.

So... quit with the red herrings on me and on others (eg chefken) and stick to the issues.


I'd love to. Mind ennumerating exactly what public monies you're talking about there? How much?

I'm afraid I don't have a very active imagination so ominous words and phrases like "boondoggle" and "corporate welfare" don't really fire me up like they should. Hard numbers work better.

Another, I think, pertinent question would be how did those damned developers manage to subvert Greg Higgins and Marco Shaw (both PPM board members) into their fold?


Note: I've never contributed to the PPM, I know no one on the board and really know nothing about the project aside from what I've seen on their website and from news articles I've googled. I'm just a fan of honest and open discourse, backed up with facts.

#58 Calabrese

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 03:45 PM

OK - I think we have some examples of corporate welfare:

http://www.portlandt...093798894904900

http://bojack.org/20...s_tram_lie.html

And let's not forget how the PDC displaced a lot of established neighborhoods in South Portland in '50s to help business with infrastructure and land while it did nothing for those who were displaced. And this was done to poorer residents of Italian and Jewish ethnicity using tax (Federal) monies.

http://www.pdc.us/pd...wal_history.pdf

I don't suppose you really know PDX's history Daaaave, but I can certainly help you there.

Now it's other parts of the city that are being affected by the city's kowtowing to certain interests over other interests.

As for your facts and figures on boondoogles and hand-outs, here you go:

http://saveportland.com/

I'd love to have the property tax to property value ratios a lot of owners in the pearl. I'd be paying less than $50 a year (done on quick estimations).

I'd also love to pay a 6.6% per cent flat income tax like Oregon businesses do.

http://www.taxadmin....e/corp_inc.html

Because my income tax rates are one hell of a lot higher than that. I must be subsidizing public services to corporations.

I am sure I could go on but I think I've made my point.

#59 ExtraMSG

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 07:56 PM

Calabrese, does ANY of that pertain to the public market?

Tonight's city club was on the public market. What did I learn? Ron Paul's voice is annoying and Scott Dolitch is a boring speaker.

I wish they would have gotten into something more substantive and detailed. btw, it's now going to be the "James Beard Public Market".


The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

Nick Zukin, Mi Mero Mole

Co-Author, Artisan Jewish Deli at Home

Formerly, Kenny & Zuke's


#60 mczlaw

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 08:02 PM

Prediction: When Pete Mark--an astute business person without a doubt--scrutinizes the fantasyland numbers Ron Paul throws at him in connection with this white elephant in the making, he tanks it rapido. Put another way, the Ron Paul public market does not open in the INS building.

Dave: you want to bet against me? Say, $20? Or maybe you have a few spare million you want to toss into the deal to get it off the ground. I can get you Ron's contact info if you don't already have it.

Looking back on this thread, I see much back and forth from those who would like to see a public market for good reasons. I am fine agreeing to disagree with them about he need for and desirability of a public market in Portland.

What remains unrebutted, however, is that the project lacks economic viability absent significant public dollars. When Ron Paul obtained $200,000 in federal money to fund the study of the Ankeny Square site by Bay Area Economics--that's a solid number I am personally aware of, Dave--even those hired guns couldn't find a way to make the deal pencil out. Dave, have you read this study?

How about a little more specific, historical fact? One of the first members of Ron Paul's then-steering committee was a fellow by the name of Vern Rifer. Vern's got a pretty interesting resume: PSU prof, mechanical engineer, project manager for Gerding/Edlen and mixed use project developer. Way back when even us rubes on the Portland Farmers Market were enamored with the public market idea, Vern said it wasn't doable privately and jumped off the Ron Paul bandwagon. Dave, maybe you could give Vern a call and ask him about this.

Ron Paul is a good person. I really believe that. I also believe, however, that this project has so consumed him for so long, he's lost perspective. His ego is too wrapped up in the deal to exercise the good judgment to pull the plug--which is really a shame given the boundless energy and great intelligence he could bring to some other, meritorious project.

OK, back to your regularly scheduled flaming.

--mcz

P.S. to Nick: the reason they didn't get into any detail is that the all new, new, latest and greatest site has absolutely no specifics attached to it--other than the same name that's been around since the beginning. Hard to get a fix on a cloud of vapor.