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#181 StMaximo

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 04:10 PM

I think you dropped a few zeros Jill-O. 

 

90 X 1000 X 360 comes out to 32.4 million on my calculator.

 

Still, I agree that if this was really going to be a money maker it would have happened a long time ago.

 

I also think it's unfortunate that they didn't go with a local firm.



#182 Jill-O

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 08:38 AM

I realized that after I left work. Oops. ;o)

 

I am back after 5 days on the couch with a bad cold and am still hacking, I think I am still a bit foggy.

 

I am going back to check the numbers I crunched yesterday at work......


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#183 polloelastico

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 09:07 AM

I was nominally excited about the prospect at one point, and admittedly didn't really care about numbers and didn't balk at the prospect of subsidization on some level, but at this point it does seem like one huge grift, and the potential novelty of the concept has completely passed.


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#184 StMaximo

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 09:48 AM

I realized that after I left work. Oops. ;o)

 

I am back after 5 days on the couch with a bad cold and am still hacking, I think I am still a bit foggy.

 

I am going back to check the numbers I crunched yesterday at work......

 

I just wrote it off to being a Monday. Hope you're feeling better soon.



#185 jennifer

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 10:39 AM

I was nominally excited about the prospect at one point, and admittedly didn't really care about numbers and didn't balk at the prospect of subsidization on some level, but at this point it does seem like one huge grift, and the potential novelty of the concept has completely passed.

 

Exactly.  It's like doing public fundraising for the Ferry Building market in SF.  Give me a break.  



#186 nervousxtian

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 10:02 AM

RubberyPoultry.. I kinda of agree with you.. as the novelty of the idea has worn off... but still I think the city can use more things like this to promote tourism.     Portland still really lacks some of the tourist destination spots that are IN town.



#187 ExtraMSG

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 09:08 PM

I don't know if chefs "support" it so much as are willing to sign on for the publicity and networking opportunities.  The whole thing is very self-serving.  I don't blame chefs for doing it.  They have an obligation to try to keep their restaurants in business.  No one thinks that just because Rick Bayless did a Burger King commercial that he's a regular customer.  Likewise, I'd be skeptical of how much chefs support such a project, especially as envisioned.

 

$27 million in revenue seems reasonable for the vendors to earn.  If you do 90 vendors x $1000 x 300 days, that's about what you get.  That's not what the building earns however.  The building would earn, they say, about $5 million from those vendors, I assume in the form of rent.  Although that would be really high rent as a percentage of income.

 

I don't know how much of the 17 story building they're thinking would be vendors.

 

I have a few problems with it:

 

1) It's highly subsidized, yet something that will be competing heavily with existing businesses and both the Portland Farmers Market and, I assume, the Saturday Market.

 

2) Like all public markets, it's really just aimed at tourists, but does little to expand the tourist zone.  And again, while being heavily subsidized.

 

3) Given its location, lack of parking, etc, it really has no hope of being a market for locals, which may be its undoing in the end. Portland isn't Vancouver, Seattle, or San Francisco as a tourist destination and yet even the Granville and Pike Place markets have decent parking options, at least allowing locals to shop there without having to take the bus.  Not sure I'd want to be a vendor the first year.  I bet places end up having to close by 6pm every day 8 months of the year and half the week might be a total crap shoot.  Prepared food vendors might do decently for lunch, but produce vendors may just be SOL most of the week.  You might end up with a large portion of the vendors closed most of the week.

 

I still think a smarter idea is to develop it on the inner-east side, using some of the land owned by ODOT down by Clarklewis, etc, for example.  That would extend the tourist zone to the east side and make it less of a competitor with the Portland Farmers Market.  The neighborhood could also use some parking structures and this would be a good excuse to add them, both to the building itself and possibly nearby.  They could do something more on the 5 to 10 floors range with office spaces above.  This would also help build MLK/Grand and make the new streetcar line more useful.  You also might be more likely to get off-season business since it would have easier access to the residential neighborhoods on the east side and downtown seems so off-putting to most Portland residents. 

 

I'd be interested to know if they see it as more of an incubator or more of a Portland "best of".  Very different approaches.  I've been critical of the Portland Farmers Market for continuing to have places like Pine State or Cocina Verde with multiple popular brick and mortar restaurants.  They wouldn't accept a restaurant with those to come in.  They should sunset such places.

 

The Public Market, being an everyday thing, might have to embrace the "best of" model more than the PFM.  But it could build a lot of resentment if it becomes a place where there's yet another Salt & Straw, Bunk, Pine State, Little Big Burger, Stumptown, et al.  On the produce/meat/cheese/dairy side, though, they might have to do that just to maintain inventory, having places like Pastaworks or New Seasons be vendors.  It's going to take some careful planning and a real effort not to just make it another place for popular places to become even more popular.  It'll be easy to justify it, too, because they want the public market to be successful, which means they might want to coast on the success of vendors that are already successful.


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#188 nervousxtian

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 09:19 AM

I agree, the place makes more sense as a way to revitalize inner-SE.    It makes considerably more sense down there than downtown.    



#189 jennifer

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 05:25 PM

Initial renderings are posted.  It's gorgeous. As in, marquis for the city gorgeous. Ambitious as well. Reminds me of concept car drawings vs actual production model. We'll see which items on the wish list actually happen. Raising the Morrison Bridge ramps can't be a cheap add-on.

 

Clearly will be a must-stop on every walking tour & tourist map. But they'll need the daily locals for profitability. 

 

Oh, and they've tacked on two 20-story housing towers above the market. Who knows. A kitchen sink proposal indeed.

 

I'm not against the market.  I just don't think taxpayers should be footing the bill for the developers to profit from it all.  Nor do I think they should get non-profit status for this grandiose plan.

 

http://www.portlandm...arket-june-2015



#190 ExtraMSG

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 05:40 PM

I hate projects like this: subsidizing those with a bunch of money to do something unnecessary in the most grandiose manner possible in an area that doesn't need it.  I could understand something like gifting the land on the inner east side to help continue the expansion of retail over there and make use of the new streetcar line, etc.  But this is probably the worst public market idea they've had so far. Not only does it, as a market, as opposed to as a food court, not really serve anyone but tourists, but it will compete with the PSU farmers market and further crowd a part of downtown already overwhelmed with all the festivals in the summer.  It's also subsidizes the use of prime real estate and requires a significant overhaul on a major piece of infrastructure.

 

But hey, it's free money, right?  It's not like they're short tens of millions for roads or talking about raising taxes for Tri-Met, etc.


The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

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Formerly, Kenny & Zuke's


#191 jennifer

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 05:48 PM

That's what I don't understand, how they're funding this.  My guess is the market itself will be subsidized and gets nonprofit status.  But the office tower & residential towers should all be private funding with the land acquired at market cost.  Anything less and it's just the taxpayer subsidizing a boondoggle for private profit. 

 

I don't think people will shop here vs PSU market.  It'll be highly inconvenient to do so, logistically.  It think people will come on lunch hour here instead of food carts and other local places.  But I really can't see people coming here for food shopping.  I know I said that twice.  It's just that unbelievable to me.

 

I have to think it'll be more like the inside of the SF Ferry Building market with outposts of bakeries, chocolate shops & prepared food vendors.  Not farm stands.



#192 jennifer

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 05:51 PM

And don't forget, Pine Street Market food hall is 2 blocks away.  Which makes it even more baffling to me on what will go inside the JB market.

 

http://www.portlandm...et-january-2015



#193 pwillen1

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 06:44 AM

I have to think it'll be more like the inside of the SF Ferry Building market with outposts of bakeries, chocolate shops & prepared food vendors.  Not farm stands.

 

I agree and we likely have the tourism to support it. But I don't see locals using it much. In SF, they've basically outlawed farmer's markets whereas in PDX, you can find one every day of the week, and probably within your quadrant every day of the week. That's amazing!


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#194 jennifer

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 09:12 AM

Andddddd the latest.  Not building it at the Morrison Bridge head.  New location to be selected in the next few months.

http://pdx.eater.com...es-new-location

 

EDIT: Here's a much deeper article on issues with the Naito Pkwy location:

http://chatterbox.ty...d Architecture)



#195 nate

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 10:35 AM

I'm intrigued by the near OMSI idea. Not sure if they mean that big gravel lot right by the east end of the Tillikum Crossing bridge, but that seems like a much more sensible location than downtown. It would probably be nice to have it in a slightly more residential neighborhood, but it would be accessible to transit (very) and pedestrians (sort of) and is an underutilized space. 



#196 StMaximo

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 03:45 PM

This whole project seems like an idea whose time has come and gone if indeed it ever was viable. Pike Market and the Ferry Building were in the right place at the right time. 

 

There are so many other, smaller options opening up around town that fill niche that this is aiming for.