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#1 quietone

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 11:21 AM

After the note in the Oregonian - which tipped me off to it - I've spent Sunday mornings in line at the Hillsdale Farmer's Market for Tastebud's fantastic old-world-style bagels.

My question is: where can I buy good bagels on a regular basis? Every time I ask a non-foodie friend they say, Have you tried Noah's? ARGH! That's not a good bagel (to me)!

Any suggestions? I'm looking for a dense, chewy, crispy-on-the-outside and soft-on-the-inside New York style bagel.

QO

#2 gal4giants

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 11:32 AM

After the note in the Oregonian - which tipped me off to it - I've spent Sunday mornings in line at the Hillsdale Farmer's Market for Tastebud's fantastic old-world-style bagels.

My question is: where can I buy good bagels on a regular basis? Every time I ask a non-foodie friend they say, Have you tried Noah's? ARGH! That's not a good bagel (to me)!

Any suggestions? I'm looking for a dense, chewy, crispy-on-the-outside and soft-on-the-inside New York style bagel.

QO


Sad to say but what you want doesn't exist here in Portland.......sounds a bit crazy but Safeway bakery bagels are the best I can find ...not as chewy as I'd hope but crispy on the outside & soft inside

kim @ apizza

#3 PDXWine

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 01:03 PM

My question is: where can I buy good bagels on a regular basis?

The sad answer is a question. Do you know anyone in NYC?

If so, have them go by H&H or Zabar's, freeze the bagels right away, pack 'em with frozen gel-packs or dry ice and two-day or three-day express them to you. Overnight shipping, which is the only option direct from the baker, makes them VERY expensive.

#4 ExtraMSG

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 03:49 PM

Sometimes we have leftovers at the end of the day at Kenny & Zuke's on Saturdays, which we will sell off. Michael's bagels are the best around, but he only makes a limited number for us and then some on occasion that he sells at the Portland Farmer's Market. I think he makes 30 dozen and sells out in about an hour. They're a big step up, imo, from Tastebud's.

My biggest problem with Tastebud is the inconsistency. I've had them when they've been pretty good and I've had them when they were burned on the outside and undercooked on the inside. And the dough isn't quite what a good bagel dough should be, I think. But the oven gives them some flavor and when they're good they're acceptable, though not really like a New York bagel.

I think Kim's right. Safeway's are actually better than most. They're not dense enough and the dough doesn't have as much flavor as it should, but they do have a bit of a crust to them.
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#5 lavendersoda

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 06:22 PM

though I think everything else there is pretty ignorable, the Old Pharmacy Cafe on 21st and Glisan actually has decent bagels. I know, I know, terribly unlikely. But the best I've come across in this city.

#6 ExtraMSG

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 06:41 PM

I had heard they boil them first -- an often missing step. I still haven't tried them, though.
The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

Nick Zukin, Mi Mero Mole & Kenny & Zuke's

#7 quietone

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 06:49 PM

ExtraMSG-

Whose extra bagels do have you have at K & Z's? Is Michael a different bagelmaker, or is he the Tastebed guy.

Incidentally, I agree that Tastebud ones are not NY-style, really, but they satisfy a craving. It's just the worst feeling, biting into a warm bagel, and realizing, this is bread, it isn't a bagel!

I'll surely try the Old Pharmacy Cafe, if they boil-n-bake, that's over half the battle.

QO

#8 ExtraMSG

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 07:56 PM

Michael is Michael Zusman and calls his operation Touch of Grace. He's an amateur baker who sells his wares on rare occasions at the Portland Farmer's Market. He also makes excellent rye and challah. You can see his announcements here:

http://portlandfood....p?showtopic=993

Having made my own bagels a couple times now from scratch, I agree boiling and baking is half the battle. However, that leaves half the battle left -- dryness of the dough, method of shaping, type of starter, amount of retard, etc. It's pretty easy to make a crappy bagel but boil it first. I tried one time to make a few by poking a hole in the center and stretching them into shape as some books suggest. Nope. The hand-rolling method works way better. The former method created these overly puffy bagels with big air pockets.

Report back. I'll be interested in your findings.
The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

Nick Zukin, Mi Mero Mole & Kenny & Zuke's

#9 StMaximo

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 05:59 PM

Bagel Land at NE 42nd and Fremont boil their bagels. The baker there claimed that they were the only ones in Portland still boiling, everybody else steams them supposedly.

The bagels at bagel land aren't as puffy as Noah's and are a lot chewier. I like them, but I'm not from New York and what do I know?

I tried the bagels at Hillsdale Farmer's Market a while back - cooked in a wood burning oven, a plus - small, expensive, charred on the outside and raw on the inside - many minuses.

New York for bagels, pastrami and hopefully a ticket to Letterman someday.

#10 cdevs

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 09:09 PM

My wife brought some H&H back from NYC last month...they sucked! Well, OK, they were better than nearly every bagel in P-town, but not by much. Very sweet. I'd forgotten that.

My faves in New York are easily Kossar's on the lower East Side, just around the corner from The Pickle Guys. Kossar's bialys also rule the world. Check it out if you're in NYC someday. It's a great 1-2-3 punch on a Sunday morning, if you include dim sum somewhere in Chinatown, which is also just down the street.

Sometimes I think this board should be renamed portlandfoodvianyc.org

#11 chefken

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 09:57 AM

H & H used to be great, but they started going downhill quite a few years ago (again with the qualifier "for a NY bagel"). Kosar's Bialy's are fabulous, and they mail ordr, by the way. Be sure to check out Touch of Grace Bagels that you can get at Kenny and Zuke's on Saturdays. They're as good, I think, as just about anything in NYC right now. And at some point, Michael (owner of T of G) will make some Bialys for us - I've had his and they're terrific. Stay tuned.
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#12 ducky

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 10:45 AM

For anyone interested, Michael is teaching a bagel class next month at In Good Taste.
http://www.ingoodtas...6/HO_Bagels.asp
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#13 Snarky

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 09:04 AM

OK, where in PDX can one buy a good (and does NYC style = good?) bagel on a regular basis (not at a restaurant or a farmers market once a week)?

Noah's -- no-no.
Bagel Land -- ?
Safeway -- ?
Old Pharmacy Cafe -- ?

And, what's the preparation process that yields the best bagel, boiled then baked and/or broiled and how can one tell if a bagel is prepared that way?

#14 krunchky

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 05:23 PM

Everybody raves about mczlaw's bagels that he sporadically sells at the PSU farmer's market, and now at Ken and Zuke's. My simple question is, in a city of 500,000-some-odd relatively sophisticated people, why aren't there a half dozen bagel shops selling stuff of that caliber all the time? I moved here about a year ago from Back East, and I'm still mystified.

Anybody able to shed some light on this mystery?

#15 mczlaw

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 05:59 PM

Everybody raves about mczlaw's bagels that he sporadically sells at the PSU farmer's market, and now at Ken and Zuke's. My simple question is, in a city of 500,000-some-odd relatively sophisticated people, why aren't there a half dozen bagel shops selling stuff of that caliber all the time? I moved here about a year ago from Back East, and I'm still mystified.

Anybody able to shed some light on this mystery?


The Trilateral Commission is behind this.

Other equally meritorious theories:

1. Most people don't know from good bagels.
2. Most people don't want to pay for them.
3. Good bagels are a pain in the ass to make.
4. It's Harry Mosler's fault for dying and not leaving his recipe.
5. Not enough east coast transplants like Krunchky to create sustained demand.

I'll try to think of some other reasons later. In addition to K&Z (and Mark Doxtader's wood-fired versions), I have heard rumors of a couple other potential commercial producers, but nothing concrete so far.

Mosler died around the High Holidays in '69--so it's been about 38 years since we have had a good commercial bagel. If all goes well, expect plenty of good, fresh bagels, bialys (just did a batch last night), challah and rye in just a few months time. Patience, grasshopper.

--mcz


#16 nagrom

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 09:35 PM

I have wondered over this same question for the last 7 years that I've lived here. I mean, I got good bagels in Bellingham back in 93 from the bagelry. How it is that Bellingham in its po-dunck years had good bagels and portland is totally bereft? How are there a million "artisan bakeries" in this town, not one of which actually makes a real bagel? What's wrong with this place? I spent 4 years of college living off of bagels!




Everybody raves about mczlaw's bagels that he sporadically sells at the PSU farmer's market, and now at Ken and Zuke's. My simple question is, in a city of 500,000-some-odd relatively sophisticated people, why aren't there a half dozen bagel shops selling stuff of that caliber all the time? I moved here about a year ago from Back East, and I'm still mystified.

Anybody able to shed some light on this mystery?


The Trilateral Commission is behind this.

Other equally meritorious theories:

1. Most people don't know from good bagels.
2. Most people don't want to pay for them.
3. Good bagels are a pain in the ass to make.
4. It's Harry Mosler's fault for dying and not leaving his recipe.
5. Not enough east coast transplants like Krunchky to create sustained demand.

I'll try to think of some other reasons later. In addition to K&Z (and Mark Doxtader's wood-fired versions), I have heard rumors of a couple other potential commercial producers, but nothing concrete so far.

Mosler died around the High Holidays in '69--so it's been about 38 years since we have had a good commercial bagel. If all goes well, expect plenty of good, fresh bagels, bialys (just did a batch last night), challah and rye in just a few months time. Patience, grasshopper.

--mcz



#17 ExtraMSG

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 09:46 PM

Making good bagels is fairly different from making most breads. The dough is quite different. They're VERY labor intensive and/or require specific bagel equipment.

I've wanted to -- and I don't know why I haven't -- go through and just get a good feel for bagels at all the places that make their own in town: Noah's, Kornblatt's, Sunrise, Bagel Land, Old Nob Hill Pharmacy, Safeway, etc. Add in Mother's, who flies them in from H&H, plus Mczlaw's, even if frozen. It'd be easy to hit them all in a day.

Anywhere else? I should combine threads. I know there are other bagel threads, so I may do that. Be warned.

Anyone want to spend a morning eating bagels with me some time?
The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

Nick Zukin, Mi Mero Mole & Kenny & Zuke's

#18 Twitch

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:26 PM

Mmmm bialys.

I was always a big fan of Humble Bagel's bagels in Eugene, but it's been forever since I've had them.

#19 truth

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 09:00 AM

Anywhere else? I should combine threads. I know there are other bagel threads, so I may do that. Be warned.



I actually think that the bagels at My Favorite Muffin in beaverton are the best readily available bagels... you'd have to at least give them a try. Looking forward to the famous mczlaw bagels.
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#20 bigloo

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 12:27 PM

I will have to skip unfortunately, but try hit the kosher Albertsons in Raleigh Hill. I have had very good bagels from them before (I think they might fly them in, dont know for sure though). Looking forward to the report.