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Danny Meyer eliminates all tipping at his restaurants


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#21 ExtraMSG

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 08:33 PM

The first thing a server thinks if they get no tip or a low % tip is that the customer is/was an asshole... not that maybe they did something wrong.      Maybe if they treated the customer like shit they expect it, but it's a horrible tool to gauge effective service levels.

 

Bullshit. Most servers know the difference between getting a low tip because of a problem and getting a low tip because someone's an asshole.

 

..and again.. you can't escape that the system is discriminatory.     

 

You mean despite dealing with it in every comment above?  btw, ran the numbers and the black-white wage gap is actually greater than the black-white tip gap.  We should totally get rid of jobs.  Or replace wages with tipping, since tipping appears to be LESS discriminatory than wages. 

 

..and yes.. the bartender one.. I'm tipping the guy so effectively he rips off his boss.   That's an awesome system for owners.

 

The point remains, you do tip more based on perceived service. That you only tip good for shitty reasons is your problem.


The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

Nick Zukin, Mi Mero Mole

Co-Author, Artisan Jewish Deli at Home

Formerly, Kenny & Zuke's


#22 polloelastico

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 09:17 AM

Pretty good op-ed: http://qz.com/526262...he-end-of-tips/

 

 

A salary could make servers at some restaurants better off, but at high-end or very busy places, it probably won’t. Meyer plans take what used to be the tip, soon to be a service charge, and add it to other revenue and pay his employees more equitably. Meyer will pay servers a lower salary than other employees. But they will participate in a revenue sharing plan which he claims, most of the time, will yield similar pay. Perhaps it will work if there’s extra revenue to go around. But it’s hard to see how that would work at most restaurants. Even if prices go up 30% (owners also have to pay tax on the salaries) there’s not much new revenue. Restaurants, even high end ones, tend to operate on thin margins. The goal is correcting a pay imbalance, which may be a better market outcome but it does make at least one party worse off—previously overpaid waiters.

 

Considering chefs have years of school, training and skill it does seem like a market distortion they are paid so much less than waiters. But while the pay disparity is particularly bad in the restaurants, to some degree it is something workers in all industries face. Servers are essentially the sales people in a restaurant. In most industries (media, finance, manufacturing), the sales people are often not the best educated or smartest, but they also are often the best compensated—often with higher, variable performance-based pay. What office worker hasn’t felt resentful that a less educated, less intelligent, but exceedingly charming sales person makes much more than he does—for selling the product his talent produced?

 

Tipping does have some benefits, but a move away from it is in many ways a victory for back office talent everywhere.


“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” — George Carlin

#23 ExtraMSG

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 02:39 PM

It also ignores that the increase in prices should decrease demand.  How much?  Depends on the place.  Higher end places probably can weather it better than lower end places.  

 

There is beginning to be a shortage of cooks, which suggests the inequities in pay are starting to show themselves in the market.  I think this is part of what Chefstable is trying to deal with in their current experiment.  Getting rid of tip sharing regulations, though, would allow restaurants to find the actual equilibrium point and balance the pay more fairly.  It would take a few years as servers slowly get paid less and cooks slowly paid more.  Too quick would seems like a bad deal to servers.  But after a few years, the market would settle on what's appropriate.


The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

Nick Zukin, Mi Mero Mole

Co-Author, Artisan Jewish Deli at Home

Formerly, Kenny & Zuke's


#24 polloelastico

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 05:09 PM

Coincidentally, the Gray Lady published this today

 

There is beginning to be a shortage of cooks, which suggests the inequities in pay are starting to show themselves in the market.  I think this is part of what Chefstable is trying to deal with in their current experiment.  Getting rid of tip sharing regulations, though, would allow restaurants to find the actual equilibrium point and balance the pay more fairly.  It would take a few years as servers slowly get paid less and cooks slowly paid more.  Too quick would seems like a bad deal to servers.  But after a few years, the market would settle on what's appropriate.


“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” — George Carlin

#25 nervousxtian

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 06:37 PM

Thanks for that link, good article.     



#26 polloelastico

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:17 AM

Pok Pok LA Opening With Hybrid Service Charge-Tipping Model in Chinatown

 

Second: the restaurant will employ a gratuity model that combines traditional tipping with a 5 percent service charge so that Ricker can more fairly compensate his entire staff, including cooks and other back of the house staffers who often make less than waiters.

 

Ricker does not plan to levy a service charge at either of his two New York locations. "Long term though, I agree that service charge or full European model are inevitable unless someone comes up with some heretofore unknown way of doing business," Ricker adds. The full European model he's referring is the service-included system wherein a restaurant eliminates the need to tip by raising prices. Per Se famously did as much in New York in 2005, and Danny Meyer announced he would transition all of his Big Apple restaurant to service-included by the end of 2016.

 

The hybrid model is somewhat less common and it prompts the question: With a 3-5 percent service charge, could (or should) patrons reduce tips to 15 percent?

 

Seriously, already. How many tipping models do we have to commit to memory? Just give us the damn service charge line item and let me move on with my life.


“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” — George Carlin

#27 ExtraMSG

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 02:08 PM

Expects Starbucks barista to remember 87,000 drink permutations,  but gets huffy when has to navigate more than one tipping scheme.

 

Pok Pok LA Opening With Hybrid Service Charge-Tipping Model in Chinatown

 

Second: the restaurant will employ a gratuity model that combines traditional tipping with a 5 percent service charge so that Ricker can more fairly compensate his entire staff, including cooks and other back of the house staffers who often make less than waiters.

 

Ricker does not plan to levy a service charge at either of his two New York locations. "Long term though, I agree that service charge or full European model are inevitable unless someone comes up with some heretofore unknown way of doing business," Ricker adds. The full European model he's referring is the service-included system wherein a restaurant eliminates the need to tip by raising prices. Per Se famously did as much in New York in 2005, and Danny Meyer announced he would transition all of his Big Apple restaurant to service-included by the end of 2016.

 

The hybrid model is somewhat less common and it prompts the question: With a 3-5 percent service charge, could (or should) patrons reduce tips to 15 percent?

 

Seriously, already. How many tipping models do we have to commit to memory? Just give us the damn service charge line item and let me move on with my life.


The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

Nick Zukin, Mi Mero Mole

Co-Author, Artisan Jewish Deli at Home

Formerly, Kenny & Zuke's


#28 polloelastico

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 03:04 PM

I only order drip coffee and hand jobs at Starbucks.


“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” — George Carlin

#29 ExtraMSG

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 03:29 PM

I think you've been misunderstanding when they put their hand out and ask for just a tip. 

 

I only order drip coffee and hand jobs at Starbucks.


The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

Nick Zukin, Mi Mero Mole

Co-Author, Artisan Jewish Deli at Home

Formerly, Kenny & Zuke's


#30 nervousxtian

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 08:05 AM

Better in the hand than in the jar.