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What's in Your Ground Beef? Pink Slime


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#41 RM

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:56 PM

I heard that report, but they didn't say whether schools would have to pay more for the real stuff, or what % of fat the real stuff would be. I'm guessing they're still figuring it out


I recall hearing somewhere on the radio that schools would have the option of buying the cheaper ground beef with the "Pink Slime" or the more expensive ground beef without the "Lean Finely Textured Beef".

I guess that the producer and the FDA are saying the the Lean Finely Textured Beef is all beef therefor its not an additive and that there is nothing to add to the 100% beef label.

#42 ExtraMSG

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:21 PM

http://eater.com/arc...e-ad-in-wsj.php

Beef Products, Inc., the self-professed "world's leading producer of lean beef processed from fresh beef trimmings," is not going to watch its business go down in social media-fueled flames, so they did what any normal company in the big trouble would do: They ran a full-page ad in the Wall Street Journal (the full ad is below). There's an editorial by Nancy Donley, President, STOP Foodborne Illness talking about how ammonia hydride and food-grade antimicrobial sprays are "necessary."

Eldon Roth, CEO of BPI also gets some space. He chimes in about the "campaign of lies and deceit that have been waged" by the "entertainment media, tabloid journalists, so-called national news." He says the "misinformation campaign" may result in the "loss of over 3,000" jobs. He also says that the "lean beef" from his company has been in over 300 billion meals.

....

A spokesman for Cargill, the leading U.S. ground beef producer, told The Daily that "pink slime" is "pretty much over." And that "the industry produces 800 million pounds of finely textured beef every year." Pulling the additive entirely from the market would have other effects: "We'll likely have to raise an additional 1.5 million head of cattle to make up for the loss," he said.


The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

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#43 ExtraMSG

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:24 PM

There should be a couple new rules of the internet:

#48 All conclusions are worth jumping to
#49 If it exists, there is a petition against it
The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

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#44 Calabrese

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:14 PM

There should be a couple new rules of the internet:

#48 All conclusions are worth jumping to
#49 If it exists, there is a petition against it


And agribusiness has never lied to anyone ever and never had issues with any of its products ever. I have some prime ocean front real estate in Nevada, if you are interested. Once that San Andreas Fault breaks off you will be sitting on a fortune.

#45 Quo Vadis

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:20 AM

A strawman is "an argument or opponent set up so as to be easily refuted or defeated." {American Heritage Dictionary, in TheFreeDictionary} The A.H. Dictionary also gives two other definitions — including "a bundle of straw made into the likeness of a man and often used as a scarecrow" which is the origin of using strawman to describe one type of logical fallacy — but this page will focus on the use of strawman in logic and rhetoric. For other definitions, see Wikipedia's disambiguation for StrawMan.

Wikipedia says: "A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To ‘set up a straw man’ or ‘set up a straw-man argument’ is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. A straw-man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted. ... It is occasionally called a straw dog fallacy, scarecrow argument, or wooden dummy argument." / "One can set up a straw man in the following ways: 1) Present a misrepresentation of the opponent's position, refute it, and pretend that the opponent's actual position has been refuted. 2) Quote an opponent's words out of context — i.e., choose quotations that are not representative of the opponent's actual intentions. 3) Present someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, refute that person's arguments, and pretend that every upholder of that position, and thus the position itself, has been defeated. 4) Invent a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs that are criticized, and pretend that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical. 5) Oversimplify a person's argument into a simple analogy, which can then be attacked."

Here is an evaluation, a strategy, and a resource:
evaluation (and editorial opinion) — A strawman argument pretends that something false is true, so it is intellectually dishonest.
a defensive strategy — Your only defense is to "know your stuff" by educating yourself, so you'll by know the evidence and logic that supports each position.
an educational resource — Because we in ASA want to help promote honesty and integrity in science (and in other areas of life) a central goal is to minimize the distorted "strawman" caricatures built by opponents of a view, so you can learn what each view actually is. In an effort to do this, our main educational strategy is to help you "get the best information and arguments that all sides of an issue can claim as support... so you can get an accurate understanding." {quoted from Accurate Understanding and Respectful Attitudes}

One type of strawman argument is "those [legal] arguments in briefs or opinions created solely for the purpose of debunking or ‘discovering’ them. Arguments so created are like ‘straw men’ because they are, by nature, insubstantial."
Methinks I am like a man, who having struck on many shoals, and having narrowly escap'd shipwreck in passing a small frith, has yet the temerity to put out to sea in the same leaky weather-beaten vessel, and even carries his ambition so far as to think of compassing the globe under these disadvantageous circumstances-Hume

#46 polloelastico

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:29 AM

So its prevalence has been over-sensationalized and exaggerated, but the producer says it's been in 300 billion meals and the loss of production will result in massive job losses and additional cows being slaughtered to keep up with our demand for processed amalgamated killstuff. I suspect perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle.

But, nobody wants it anymore because they think it's gross, real or imagined, etc. and so on.

Either way, I'm not losing sleep.
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” — George Carlin

#47 ExtraMSG

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:18 AM

Well, sure. Truth rarely matters until it aligns with a person's desires. Then they're shocked -- SHOCKED -- that someone would ignore the facts and science.
The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

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#48 Flynn

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 01:35 PM

I'll just leave this here: http://vegan.com/blo...the-big-picture - (from Der Zukin's favorite Vegan, Grant Butler).

#49 Quo Vadis

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:28 PM

I'll just leave this here: http://vegan.com/blo...the-big-picture - (from Der Zukin's favorite Vegan, Grant Butler).


Reading that my eyes just rolled right smack out of my head.
Methinks I am like a man, who having struck on many shoals, and having narrowly escap'd shipwreck in passing a small frith, has yet the temerity to put out to sea in the same leaky weather-beaten vessel, and even carries his ambition so far as to think of compassing the globe under these disadvantageous circumstances-Hume

#50 Flynn

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:45 PM

Reading that my eyes just rolled right smack out of my head.


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#51 ExtraMSG

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:47 PM

Grant's missing the point (or doesn't care, which is more likely). It doesn't matter if the beef industry actually cares about how many cows it kills or not. It's an argument to influence readers who care that more cows will be killed. So the question is whether GRANT and other VEGANS care that more are being killed. The truth of the matter is that pink slime is a tool for activist vegans to try to stain all meat production. It's about trying to make meat gross and discourage demand, influence people to become vegan, give up meat, etc. But the problem with using something like "pink slime" is that it has the opposite result when it comes to the animals themselves: more cows will be killed to make up for the unusable filler. If the beef industry kills fewer cows by being more efficient with those it does kill and it's cheaper and more profitable for them to do so, we should be grateful for a beneficial externality.

He never actually engages the claim by the beef industry. Instead, he goes off on three or four other tangents that ignore the question at hand and instead are aimed at saying the beef industry is bad, so ignore their claims altogether. It doesn't matter what the truth is, only that he cede no ground to "the enemy". Just one more example of why politics sucks and that vegans who aren't willing to accept or even truly engage a challenge to their beliefs are akin to ideological or religious zealots.

Vegan.com: Adding to the BS.
The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

Nick Zukin, Mi Mero Mole & Kenny & Zuke's

#52 Calabrese

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:08 PM

Then there is this from an actual independent cattle producer with a degree in animal science from a state ag school:


http://nobull.mikeca...system-exposed/


In 1991 Roth began his production of Lean Finely Textured Beef (LFTB), now known as “Pink Slime“, which became a popular low cost additive for big food service companies and chain eateries to include in ground beef. It was in response to what the industry perceived the consumer wanted – lean and low fat. The process included heating the meat trimmings to a temperature somewhere between the congelation (coagulation) temperature of beef fat, around 100 degrees, and the melting point of 113 degrees Fahrenheit – also, the perfect growing temperature forE. coli 0157:H7. This was Shangri-La for the bacteria – plenty of fat to eat at a perfect growing temperature.

The Jack in the Box disaster followed in January of 1993. Like most big burger processors, the Jack in the Box supplier, Von’s Companies Inc., produced the contaminated ground beef from the lowest cost raw materials they could find – with no required trace-back to the source slaughter plant (foreign or domestic), where contamination occurs. Unbelievably, still today, USDA, in their desire to protect the big packers, continues to block trace-back to the slaughter source. Roth implemented his pH enhancement system of gassing the bacteria with anhydrous ammonia (which turns to ammonium hydroxide when mixed with water) in 1994 as an antimicrobial treatment to reduce the deadly pathogens in his product.



Much more at link above.



#53 jennifer

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 08:07 AM

Jon Stewart on Pink Slime, video clip at the bottom of the page.

http://eater.com/arc...-pink-slime.php

#54 Quo Vadis

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 09:31 AM

I thought Jon Stewart was pink slime :lol:
Methinks I am like a man, who having struck on many shoals, and having narrowly escap'd shipwreck in passing a small frith, has yet the temerity to put out to sea in the same leaky weather-beaten vessel, and even carries his ambition so far as to think of compassing the globe under these disadvantageous circumstances-Hume

#55 nervousxtian

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:47 PM

Could care less, if it's safe it's safe.. all food comes with a chance of bacteria, vegetables included.

Just mark label it, that's all. I mean shit, what the hell did people think were in those salisbury steaks from Banquet.. or how fast food joints were able to see burgers for so long for so cheap.. it is what it is.

#56 sacman

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 07:34 PM

That's all, folks. 650 jobs, down the drain.

Hope everybody's satisfied.

-sacman
- I am an employee of a Portland-based firm that has business relationships with several local food-related businesses.

#57 jafar

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 09:28 PM

That's all, folks. 650 jobs, down the drain.

Hope everybody's satisfied.

-sacman


Don't worry, there will be jobs created raising and butchering the million extra cows needed to make up the shortfall.

And won't people still be needed to process this crap for pet food?

#58 polloelastico

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 08:16 AM


That's all, folks. 650 jobs, down the drain.

Hope everybody's satisfied.

-sacman


Don't worry, there will be jobs created raising and butchering the million extra cows needed to make up the shortfall.

And won't people still be needed to process this crap for pet food?

Free market forces at work. Over the last couple decades, when Tang consumption waned, I felt sorry nobody was thinking of the poor people in their respective calcium phosphate, guar gum, xanthan gum, sodium acid pyrophosphate, artificial color, yellow 5, yellow 6, and BHA industries.

Can't we simply blame all the random meat byproduct fans for not clapping hard enough and buying enough of this Conglomerated Erstwhile Meatbrick™ to serve to their children and to bring to potlucks?
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” — George Carlin

#59 ExtraMSG

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:03 PM

Buying beef for meatballs today, I noticed the price had gone up 20 cents a pound. Since I know the beef never had the pink slime to begin with, I imagine it is a function of lower supply of ground beef in part due to all the places pulling pink slime laden beef.

Personally, I don't care that this place closed. It is indeed the free market at work and they were already doing poorly and this was just the last straw. Sucks for those 600 ppl, but it's the nature of the beast and I don't know what works better than this beast.

However, this is all beside the point that Oliver et al were lying their asses off about pink slime in order to promote themselves or their ideology.
The greatest service chemistry has rendered to alimentary science, is the discovery of osmazome, or rather the determination of what it was. ~Brillat-Savarin

Nick Zukin, Mi Mero Mole & Kenny & Zuke's

#60 Quo Vadis

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:58 AM

Personally, I don't care that this place closed. It is indeed the free market at work


I haven't made up my mind about that.
Deliberate malicious defamation used to destroy a business falls slightly outside what I would define as the norm in free markets.
But preying on the knee jerk ignorance of consumers has worked in business' favor at times so I guess turn about is to be expected, if not exactly fair play.

What grates on me is you just *know* that most of the people who've acted all indignant about "pink slime" are still eating (non-artisanally produced) hotdogs and ordering pepperoni on their pizza delivery.

It is rarely the issue at hand that gets me riled up so much as the hypocrisy involved.
Methinks I am like a man, who having struck on many shoals, and having narrowly escap'd shipwreck in passing a small frith, has yet the temerity to put out to sea in the same leaky weather-beaten vessel, and even carries his ambition so far as to think of compassing the globe under these disadvantageous circumstances-Hume