[concreteoatmeal]

BigDaddy, on Jun 5 2009, 09:11 AM, said:

I haven't been there in some time, but Yam Yam's on MLK, just south of Columbia Blvd. did Sunday brunch with a lot of sides. The sides were far better than the meats and fish, which were decent, but not near the quality of the greens and blackeyed peas.

closed.

[mariko]

- RAMEN, as in a real Japanese ramen house, please
- a Japanese bakery with manju (there used to be one a bazillion years ago on Powell or something)

[old55]

PDX is at a bit of a geographical disadvantage, but it would be nice to have a world class seafood market with an accompanying restaurant that knows and respects the resource. I'm dreaming, of course.

[JandJ]

old55, on Jun 5 2009, 07:17 PM, said:

PDX is at a bit of a geographical disadvantage, but it would be nice to have a world class seafood market with an accompanying restaurant that knows and respects the resource. I'm dreaming, of course.

Oh gawwwd, yes. Just got back from visiting Seattle and Pike's Place Market and it was a sobering reminder of how much of an advantage our neighbors to the north have with respect to great seafood markets. I have yet to find anything that comes even close in Portland to some of the seafood markets found in there. Newman's has some great quality seafood but not nearly the choice and variety I saw in Seattle. I'll keep dreamin' too. <sigh>

[MoreCheese]

Okay, I went to the Eastmoreland Market today, great market..delicious mozz...I will try more next visit!

[ExtraMSG]

JandJ, on Jun 5 2009, 07:43 PM, said:

old55, on Jun 5 2009, 07:17 PM, said:

PDX is at a bit of a geographical disadvantage, but it would be nice to have a world class seafood market with an accompanying restaurant that knows and respects the resource. I'm dreaming, of course.

Oh gawwwd, yes. Just got back from visiting Seattle and Pike's Place Market and it was a sobering reminder of how much of an advantage our neighbors to the north have with respect to great seafood markets. I have yet to find anything that comes even close in Portland to some of the seafood markets found in there. Newman's has some great quality seafood but not nearly the choice and variety I saw in Seattle. I'll keep dreamin' too. <sigh>

I don't think it's a geographical disadvantage so much as a cultural one. A lot of that seafood at Pike's Place is flown in. The Copper River salmon I saw this last weekend wasn't local.

But people in San Francisco, Seattle, and Vancouver seem much more culturally inclined to seek out and eat good seafood. Think about this site. We're a bunch of food lovers and how often are people going off about fish on this site as opposed to meat? Rarely. (We're also cheaper as a population than the people in those cities and seafood is expensive.)

[BigDaddy]

If proximity to salt and fresh water were the only indicators of good seafood, Las Vegas wouldn't have any edible stuff. They don't have a top tier seafood spot there, but they do have an awful lot of good places.

It's weird, until a few years ago, people from the East Coast always assumed when they came to town we'd be taking them out for seafood, and would be astounded when we'd have to apologize for the lack of the real goods. Now they want pizza or pastrami or some other damn thing they can get at home, thinking they can sneer at our attempts to outdo them. Gotcha.

[firestorm]

BigDaddy, on Jun 6 2009, 06:08 AM, said:

If proximity to salt and fresh water were the only indicators of good seafood, Las Vegas wouldn't have any edible stuff. They don't have a top tier seafood spot there, but they do have an awful lot of good places.

It's weird, until a few years ago, people from the East Coast always assumed when they came to town we'd be taking them out for seafood, and would be astounded when we'd have to apologize for the lack of the real goods. Now they want pizza or pastrami or some other damn thing they can get at home, thinking they can sneer at our attempts to outdo them. Gotcha.

Sea Blue and Bartolota are both top teir seafood places in Vegas...

[BigDaddy]

Ooops, forgot about Bartolotta, and me with my affection for Italian style seafood. My semi-snark was more directed at RM, which is quite good but not as good as it gets. I was unaware of SeaBlue, I don't get much beyond the poker room at MGM.

As regards bang for the buck, I'll take any of them (just looked at the menu at SeaBlue) over our local seafood places.

[nagrom]

ExtraMSG, on Jun 5 2009, 09:07 PM, said:

JandJ, on Jun 5 2009, 07:43 PM, said:

old55, on Jun 5 2009, 07:17 PM, said:

PDX is at a bit of a geographical disadvantage, but it would be nice to have a world class seafood market with an accompanying restaurant that knows and respects the resource. I'm dreaming, of course.

Oh gawwwd, yes. Just got back from visiting Seattle and Pike's Place Market and it was a sobering reminder of how much of an advantage our neighbors to the north have with respect to great seafood markets. I have yet to find anything that comes even close in Portland to some of the seafood markets found in there. Newman's has some great quality seafood but not nearly the choice and variety I saw in Seattle. I'll keep dreamin' too. <sigh>

I don't think it's a geographical disadvantage so much as a cultural one. A lot of that seafood at Pike's Place is flown in. The Copper River salmon I saw this last weekend wasn't local.

But people in San Francisco, Seattle, and Vancouver seem much more culturally inclined to seek out and eat good seafood. Think about this site. We're a bunch of food lovers and how often are people going off about fish on this site as opposed to meat? Rarely. (We're also cheaper as a population than the people in those cities and seafood is expensive.)

I'd say the only reason no one on this site talks as much about seafood as meat is because there's a serious lack of good seafood, not because we don't seek out and eat it. If it were available in this town, you'd hear a lot more about it. Personally, I'm getting a little bored with pork and all of it's lovely cuts. Even bacon is getting a bit tired in this town.

[Quo Vadis]

I agree with you here. More about lack of good seafood houses than a lack of interest in seafood.

There's actually pleanty of talk of seafood here but it may not register as such because it usually falls under "ethnic".
Japanese, Chinese, SE Asian, Italian, Mexican.. tons of seafood dishes buzzed about. But maybe because "ethnic" first and seafood secondary doesn't count?

In this economy I can't see it changing since any of the above options will be more bang for your fish buck than what people consider a seafood specialty restaurant in the regional or new American to be.

[dagrassroots]

MoreCheese, on Jun 5 2009, 08:06 PM, said:

Okay, I went to the Eastmoreland Market today, great market..delicious mozz...I will try more next visit!

Yea I really like it and it is close to my house. I was there last night as well and picked up some mozzarella. I found out they make it three times daily. They do not cool the mozzarella so it stay warm and they season it very well. There is a lot of other good looking prepared food there that I want to try.
They cure there own bacon and panchetta which are really good.
Its a weird ass location though; in the middle of a residential neighborhood.

[ExtraMSG]

nagrom, on Jun 6 2009, 11:49 AM, said:

I'd say the only reason no one on this site talks as much about seafood as meat is because there's a serious lack of good seafood, not because we don't seek out and eat it. If it were available in this town, you'd hear a lot more about it. Personally, I'm getting a little bored with pork and all of it's lovely cuts. Even bacon is getting a bit tired in this town.

The market follows the demand. I've seen a lot of quality restaurants try interesting fish, only for those dishes to disappear and the mussels and salmon be the only things left.

[ExtraMSG]

Quote

There's actually pleanty of talk of seafood here but it may not register as such because it usually falls under "ethnic".
Japanese, Chinese, SE Asian, Italian, Mexican.. tons of seafood dishes buzzed about. But maybe because "ethnic" first and seafood secondary doesn't count?

In this economy I can't see it changing since any of the above options will be more bang for your fish buck than what people consider a seafood specialty restaurant in the regional or new American to be.

But if Portlanders really loved seafood like they do in Vancouver, Seattle, and San Francisco, wouldn't we see them supporting a fish house in the same way they're supporting a steakhouse like Laurelhurst Market? I just paid $100 for an omakase in Seattle and there were actually too many reservations for the number of seats. Then I paid $150 for omakase in Vancouver where the sushi bar was also full of people doing the same. Everyone but me and my wife and both of these meals were locals. (Well, that's not true, the extra person at Kappo was a business guest who got added on at the last minute.) Meanwhile, we've got people complaining that our relatively modest sushi houses are too expensive and even Hiroshi can only pull out toro one or two days a week.

If Portlanders can get $1 oysters at happy hour, or a big bowl of mussels for $12 with enough bread to stuff them, or if they can get some fish and chips for $10, or a couple sushi rolls for $10, then they're happy. But if you use a measure like willingness to pay top $ for quality seafood, then Portland falls far behind Vancouver, Seattle, and San Francisco and it shows through the lack of a high end seafood house, lack of truly high end sushi, and the limited options at otherwise good fishmongers, like Whole Foods and Newman's. Hell, New Seasons, which is entirely local, has a worse selection of seafood than Whole Foods, probably because they're not local. It's harder for me to see/prove that it's less a part of our day-to-day eats as well (though have you looked at the options at Fred Meyer or Safeway?), but it wouldn't surprise me to find out if we have lower rates of eating sushi, fish & chips, salmon sandwiches, etc.

[Calabrese]

ExtraMSG, on Jun 5 2009, 03:40 PM, said:

I don't agree Uzideth. I've eaten plenty of crappy food in San Francisco, Chicago, and New York by randomly choosing places that looked like they might have good food.

I've definitely had some crappy meals in SF and Chicago.

[Calabrese]

Long ago Portland had seafood places like Winterborne and Couch St. Fish market and they did well. But I am not sure why tastes or fashions changed....

[chefken]

uzideth, on Jun 5 2009, 11:16 AM, said:

From these comments, the thing that Portland is really missing is consistency. Or maybe it needs a higher 'average'.

The Portland food scene has plenty of diamonds in the rough, but the everyday neighborhood places don't quite measure up.

If I were from out of town, passing through the popular 'hoods, chances of finding a really great anything are pretty low.

For instance, in SF you go to the Mission District, chances are your gonna have a very good burrito. Here you'll end up at ChaChaCha. Great neighborhood breakfast spot after a big night out? If you follow the crowds, you'll end up at Cup 'n Saucer. Old fashioned steak and seafood place? Jake's or MS.

For those in the know, or willing to wait in line, there's plenty of great food. But the 'average' experience in an 'typical' Portland restaurant is probably not too good.

I think the "average" experience in a "typical" restaurant isn't all that good anywhere, and that includes other cities I've lived such as New York, Paris and San Francisco. You walk in off the street to just any place in any of these places and you can get some pretty shitty food (especially if you count the areas not right in the central cities - ever walk into a neighborhood place in the Bronx or Queens?).

IMO, Portland's percentage of good to mediocre or bad places is about the same as about anywhere, and better than a lot of places. Try just popping into your average restaurant in Cleveland sometime. Or Buffalo. Yeah, Portland does have some definite deficiencies. But try getting a decent taco in NYC, or good coffee, or a good breakfast in Manhattan that doesn't cost an arm and a leg). Or some good Pastrami in San Francisco!

[Jill-O]

I would love a restaurant dedicated to fish and seafood, that offers a big platter like one shown on another thread.

That said, I have had great seafood in this town whether it be at Yummy Yummy, Kurata, Toro Bravo, Nostrana (when they do a whole fish - both Nostrana and Toro Bravo - you should order it as it is always very good), Sel Gris, Davis Street Tavern, ten-01, Alba and even Laurelhurst Market (the salmon looked amazing the other night as did the black cod the week before). Last night even at happy hour at Davis Street Tavern the oysters (deep-cupped Nootkas!) with trout roe and the albacore sashimi were delicious. I haven't been to My Brother's Crawfish, but that certainly seems to be another place for great seafood. EaT has great oysters at decent prices. I am sure there are many others I am leaving out...

There IS great fish and seafood in this town, it's just not all at the same restaurant...and I think that is what is missing here, a place that specializes in fish and seafood with lots of fresh choices and consistent execution. (Southpark, IMO, wants to be that place, but never quite makes it for me.) You can find great stuff but there's only a choice or two at each restaurant (though more at Japanese places and at Chinese places with bigger menus)...usually salmon, sole, halibut, and/or cod.