[LadyConcierge]

Since everyone's talking about it all over the place, I thought it should have it's own thread.
Really, I think I'd never had REAL pastrami before, if that's how it's supposed to taste! I'm a West Coast born and raised kind of girl -- took me a while to even know what latkes and knishes were. Still don't know what an egg cream is... Can't wait to try the Cel-Ray in a couple weeks when my pastrami budget kicks in.

[chefken]

We're waiting for you, little girl.

Wanna try some cheesecake? First bite is free!

[mczlaw]

chefken, on Jul 27 2006, 10:20 PM, said:

We're waiting for you, little girl.

Wanna try some cheesecake? First bite is free!

LC: Don't accept cheesecake from strangers. And they don't get much stranger than Ken. The guy kissed me the other day in front of a packed house at his restaurant for bringing him a bagel and some white fish salad from Russ & Daughters. I needed a towel afterwards.

--mcz

[chefken]

Ahhh! First kisses are so sweet, Michael. But you needed a shave!

[LadyConcierge]

Damn, I forgot my cheesecake taste! I must not have been all the way awake yet. My Reuben was good, tho, and Brian was very happy that I schlepped across town to deliver his Stuffed Pastrami with mustard and Russian dressing on the side!

[fred reese]

After reading on this board about the pastrami at Ken's Place I went there on Saturday. this review will speak only about the pastrami. sorry guys, but this is not pastrami to me. It was too lean, too tough and too thick. No pepper coating(blasphemy). To me it was brisket, and it was tasty as brisket, but please don't call it pastrami.

[Leonardo]

Gotta agree. Was there Saturday with family. My uncle was the only one who got it and he felt exactly the same way. From what I could see it was cut waaay too thick!

But I loved my latke with ultra-lumpy and tasty applesauce and takeout knish. And I always enjoy a half-sour pickle & egg cream.

[lavendersoda]

I'm glad someone has broken the ice on this. I went over the summer and felt the same way. Way too thick-cut. I like a hand cut pastrami (Langers, drool), but over 1/4" thick isn't sandwich friendly anymore.

Knishes were solid though. Pickled tomatoes too.

[Decadent Sundae]

This is strange - I went there and got pastrami Saturday as well, and I loved it - the slices were beefy, but not too thick (maybe 1/4 inch, if that), it had a lovely peppery taste, it wasn't at all stringy... in fact, my husband was raving about it all weekend long. Funny how people's perceptions can be totally different, isn't it?

[ExtraMSG]

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After reading on this board about the pastrami at Ken's Place I went there on Saturday. this review will speak only about the pastrami. sorry guys, but this is not pastrami to me. It was too lean, too tough and too thick. No pepper coating(blasphemy). To me it was brisket, and it was tasty as brisket, but please don't call it pastrami.

It does have a pepper (and coriander) coating. Fairly heavy, too. (We actually had someone come in once who complained that it was "Northwest" pastrami because it WAS coated with pepper.) Heavier, certainly, than Katz's. (I was just there.) And it is certainly pastrami, not brisket. I don't know what brisket you've been eating, but brisket doesn't have the cured flavor nor the smoke flavor, both of which are probably a bit more bold than anything you'll find in New York. We use the same cut of beef, brisket, that most places use for their pastrami. Most people (including Leonardo above) generally complain that it's too fatty because we don't trim it. We started with plate, which is the cut used predominately at one time (in my research), but not used as much anymore. Plate is the belly cut, similar to what's used in making bacon on a pig. It's quite fatty. I'd say the flavor profile is much closer to NY style pastrami than anything else I've had around Portland. So it is pastrami by all reasonable definitions.

Is it GOOD pastrami? That's another question and to some degree I can't answer this for you.

I think the flavor is excellent. It is bolder than any pastrami I've had in NY, but not so much that it tastes, as one person said on Chowhound, like BBQ. The end pieces perhaps do, but that's another matter. Those only get used in the pastrami and eggs or go home with me.

Tenderness is more inconsistent and does go to quality. This last weekend, I thought there were a higher proportion of briskets that were not tender enough. It happens. I think prior to this week the average had been pretty damn good, though. About two weeks ago, it was awesome. It's a delicate balance, though, because our briskets are different sizes and we only do it once a week. We have had pieces that were too tender where they were falling apart.

People keep asking if things will get worse when we move to a full time deli. I always say that I think they will get better. Why? Because we will be working with so much more meat at a time that we can stagger things so that the product is more consistent. We can be pickier about what goes out when.

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I'm glad someone has broken the ice on this. I went over the summer and felt the same way. Way too thick-cut. I like a hand cut pastrami (Langers, drool), but over 1/4" thick isn't sandwich friendly anymore.

This really isn't the case anymore. Ken has done a much better job of not slicing 1/4" or more thick, unless it's extra tender and needs to be to keep from falling apart.

However, our pastrami is certainly cut thicker than most places. Why? Because we hand cut. Most pastrami is machine sliced. This has a couple advantages. It's faster and it makes tough pastrami seem more tender. (Edit: In fact, pastrami NEEDS to be LESS tender to be machine sliced.) imo, good hand cut pastrami is better than good machine sliced pastrami.

I've attached a picture of Katz's pastrami from my most recent visit. Our pastrami is rarely, if ever, cut that thick or thicker.

Attached File(s)

•  katzs.jpg (65.94K)
  Number of downloads: 253

[ExtraMSG]

Merging

[Amanda]

I got no problems with your pastrami...except for access to it. I need to get over there some Saturday. It's been way too long! This thread has me jonesing for it.

Best regards,

Amanda

[Leonardo]

ExtraMSG, on Nov 6 2006, 08:44 PM, said:

Most people (including Leonardo above) generally complain that it's too fatty because we don't trim it. We started with plate, which is the cut used predominately at one time (in my research), but not used as much anymore.
People keep asking if things will get worse when we move to a full time deli.

My main complaints (and those of my parents) about fattiness were when it was plate. I don't recall complaining since.

When are you moving to full-time? By that you mean breakfast-lunch five days a week?

[ExtraMSG]

Breakfast, lunch, and dinner six or seven days a week. Plus latenight Friday and Saturday. We're working on securing a location downtown.

[Flynn]

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I don't know what brisket you've been eating, but brisket doesn't have the cured flavor nor the smoke flavor, both of which are probably a bit more bold than anything you'll find in New York.

I'd agree on the smoke, but not so much on the cure. I find the cured flavor to actually be somewhat milder at your place than what I've eaten at Katz's and elsewhere.

It's minor and a nitpick, but if I was adjusting to personal taste, I'd dial up the cure more. I had no beef (ha!) with the cut when I had it.

[girl_cook]

As a side note, Provvista is now carrying Carnegie Deli Pastrami and Corned Beef, as well as pickles. Not sure who in town is carrying them.

Also, I'm not a pastrami aficionado, just giving information.

[ExtraMSG]

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I'd agree on the smoke, but not so much on the cure. I find the cured flavor to actually be somewhat milder at your place than what I've eaten at Katz's and elsewhere.

I don't know. It was pretty fresh in my mind. I had eaten our stuff the day before I ate Katz's stuff. (Plus I have a very good sense eating so much of our pastrami what it tastes like.) However, I did think that theirs had some differences in the flavor of the cure that I liked. I thought theirs had more of a mustard seed and coriander seed flavor to the cure and since that last visit, I've upped the coriander seed and mustard seed in the cure.

btw, the tenderness of Katz's has varied a pretty decent amount, too, on my three visits. The last was the best.

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As a side note, Provvista is now carrying Carnegie Deli Pastrami and Corned Beef, as well as pickles. Not sure who in town is carrying them.

Too bad they chose Carnegie among the big names. I found it rather mediocre. They do give you about three pounds of it on a sandwich, though.

btw, those of you who had the pastrami and didn't like it. Come in early some time, like between 9:30 and 10am, when there all our briskets are still available. Introduce yourself and ask for a taste. I'll do my best to find one of the most tender briskets so you can at least get a sense of how it can be at its best.

Also, I did tell Ken this last week that I didn't think it was tender enough. And Leonardo, that was actually while you were there. I think those briskets are getting fewer and fewer over time, though. But there will still be off weeks.

[chefken]

God...You're all making me sleepy, and I've got to leave for BBQ in 4 minutes. Bitch, Bitch, Bitch!

[Flynn]

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I don't know. It was pretty fresh in my mind. I had eaten our stuff the day before I ate Katz's stuff. (Plus I have a very good sense eating so much of our pastrami what it tastes like.) However, I did think that theirs had some differences in the flavor of the cure that I liked. I thought theirs had more of a mustard seed and coriander seed flavor to the cure and since that last visit, I've upped the coriander seed and mustard seed in the cure.

That could make the difference then. I last went to Katz's in August, and their pastrami had lots of great cure flavor. I can't recall if this is consistent with them or not. Some of it is likely my palate. I like lots of flavor in the cure.

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btw, the tenderness of Katz's has varied a pretty decent amount, too, on my three visits. The last was the best.

Yep, I've had gristly and tough pastrami at just about every deli I've hit more than once. My opinion has always been it's part of the deal, and I don't mind it.

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Too bad they chose Carnegie among the big names. I found it rather mediocre. They do give you about three pounds of it on a sandwich, though.

I agree that Carnegie kinda sucks, but I really like the Stage. I've had very good pastrami and corned beef there on multiple occasions, even if it is a big touristy trap.

[Jill-O]

I think the pastrami tastes darn good (ditto egg cream, ditto pickled tomatoes), but I'd still like it sliced thinner on the sandwich. I'm not in love with the rye bread, either, but it is OK.

In NYC, I prefer Katz's and Ben's Best (in Rego Park Queens on Queens Blvd.) pastrami to Carnegie and/or Stage Deli's myself. I think Kenny and Zuke's comes close flavor-wise but not texture-wise. And part of that is how thickly it is sliced.